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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
By the way if anyone else requires new magneti mareli / weber injectors
I can get them from Germany for euro 40 a piece plus vat and delivery.
Got 5 of iwp098 280cc pico injectors for 180 including vat / delivery.
Most places want a 100 a piece.
And they are original items. Rip off ireland and uk or what.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:12 pm
Posts: 587
coolmini wrote:
By the way if anyone else requires new magneti mareli / weber injectors
I can get them from Germany for euro 40 a piece plus vat and delivery.
Got 5 of iwp098 280cc pico injectors for 180 including vat / delivery.
Most places want a 100 a piece.
And they are original items. Rip off ireland and uk or what.


Out of curiousity what size injectors did you size for when it was on the 5port? I used delphi 525cc fuel injectors.

280cc seems a bit high for a 7 port?


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Hi kona I used asnu 450cc which is good upto about 95hp at which point they start giving imbalance at the top end after 6000 rpm. Then used weber pice 500 cc which did the job. If you're keeping 5 port you must have a straight shot right to the valves from the injector otherwise wall wetting will cause an imbalance again. Have tested this loads so valves need to be close to the manifold. Max duty cycle turned out to be 55 % on injectors any higher and you get imbalance. Have loads of data from various runs


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Regarding the 7 port 280cc is bang on for 165hp at 76% duty cycle.
That's what I'm aiming for. Apparently a similar engine made that much in oz with a slightly longer duration cam.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Posts: 587
165 hp? I didnt expect youd get that much from a 7port , thats very impressive, I really want to see how you get along here, I was looking at doing a similar job on mine after I sort the shell out, however I figured it would be good for maybe 120bhp.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:55 pm
Posts: 2632
Whats your location?: Drogheda
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: Traveller
Turbo
Hornet
Equinox
MINI Clubman
Location: LOUTH
1293cc, 8 valves and normally aspirated would do well to get 120bhp with a race cam. Fuel injection and programmable ignition may help the fast road cam, but how much? The 165bhp figure looks more like something you may get with forced induction.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
hi kona,

the ken elder head will apparently deliver that in road form and 170+ in race.
The port shape and diameter are designed to keep charge velocity as high as possible.
The usual heads which most are based on the piece manifold casting have too large port diameters and need high revs to make good power.
In race form these will make about 150hp at above 7000 rpm.
can't wait to see if this is all true myself and i will post dyno results in the new year.
But for now am still waiting on my new injectors they are somewhere in uk at the moment according to dhl.

Regarding the claims for the ken elder head there is a thread on the ausmini site http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic ... highlight=

its a long post and can be a bit long winded but a good read never the less.

you can get 125hp from a 5 port these days as a road drivable version. Hell i got 90hp on my diy head with standard 1.3 rockers, which is still for sale by the way.
If you deside to run a setup like this (120hp) with injection you will probably need injector staging i.e. 2 injectors per port on a 5 port head as other wise the injectors will need to be too big to be able to idle right. again can't stretch the fact that injectors need to be as close to the manifold face as possible as it makes tuning much easier. I was nearly going to drill the head at the manifold face to fit injectors straight into the head, but i wasn't sure if i would drill into the water jacket or some oil gallery. If someone is brave enough to give me a head to try it out i will. :) cheers in advance.
The Turbo guys in the uk run staged injection with their 5 port port injected versions hitting 200hp.

Personally not my cup of tea as i don't like the turbo charging thing as i prefer Naturally aspirated in a mini, but a great achievement never the less by those who did and my hat goes of to them.

I also think that the way the combustion chamber is still shaped like the 5 port in most 7 port heads is wrong. it works well in a 5 port but i think the shape is incorrect in a 7 port as the gases now enter from the other side. Almost all have a strange position for the spark plug in the head. one guy in the uk tried to have a go at it by drilling the spark plug thread to the next bigger size and off setting it in such a way to promote better mixture ignition.
Again most are trying to fix the flawed original design that is now 50 years old.
i think the best attempt back then was the alexander head which head a slightly taller head and the angle of the ports into the valve was a lot better, however i haven't found much data/documentation on this head. There is a place in kiwi land that is making a similar head to the alexander design.

anyways enough of my blab erring .

just bored at the moment until those damn injectors are in.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
well woody

i will find out soon now wont i. lol

and there was a mini in westward with 7 port head on webers that made 150odd hp in race form not too long ago, was taking to him last week about injectors.

so those figures are not that far off the scale.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Posts: 587
coolmini wrote:

you can get 125hp from a 5 port these days as a road drivable version. Hell i got 90hp on my diy head with standard 1.3 rockers, which is still for sale by the way.
If you deside to run a setup like this (120hp) with injection you will probably need injector staging i.e. 2 injectors per port on a 5 port head as other wise the injectors will need to be too big to be able to idle right. again can't stretch the fact that injectors need to be as close to the manifold face as possible as it makes tuning much easier. I was nearly going to drill the head at the manifold face to fit injectors straight into the head, but i wasn't sure if i would drill into the water jacket or some oil gallery. If someone is brave enough to give me a head to try it out i will. :) cheers in advance.
The Turbo guys in the uk run staged injection with their 5 port port injected versions hitting 200hp.

.


Id be the same as yourself, I dont think turbo is good for a driveable road mini with some form of reliability. However, Id say a nice turbo 850 or 998 would be a decent little car, low tax, and depending on the boost id say more reliable than the larger bores.

My one is semi sequential, using two 525cc injectors, Ive the calculations somewhere for it too if you want to see them. They are about 4 inches from the throat (this is just off the top of my head, again im sure ive the figures somewhere).
Unfortunatley when I had it just about finished I ended up getting a job and Id to move away for a year, I had to buy another car and so the mini was left lying there (I know :p) . Luckily Ive saved enough money to sort out the major issues, which will put me in a position to finish the car for the summer, so then I can get some real testing done on it.

Mine was 1380 and a 286 cm, stage 3 head and had 94hp on 1.5 twin SU. Id hope the injection would bring it over the 100, however what I did notice, even with a doodoo map, was the throttle response and overall driveability wa much better, and the induction noise! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 am
Posts: 1949
Whats your location?: THE FRIDGE
Region: Aboard
What Minis have you?: 110bhp 1968 mkII
Modifications: NEW Custom flakey paint
Location: The Fridge I told ye!!
going so high into the horsey figures wouldn't you be a bit concerned about rebuild intervals?

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Hi macker

Haven't really worried about that one yet. Gear box will be main concern on that one. I went for straight cut drop gears in hope that they will last longer. The bearings are all new too and so are the baulk rings. Well there's 2000 miles on them since rebuild using the 5 port. So will give good indication on how long it all will last. Keeping oil services to 3000 miles might help too.

Wasn't your mini up in the 120 hp area? How are you for rebuilds.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Kona why don't you post some pics of your setup. Always like seeing what others come up with to compare notes.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:21 am 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 am
Posts: 1949
Whats your location?: THE FRIDGE
Region: Aboard
What Minis have you?: 110bhp 1968 mkII
Modifications: NEW Custom flakey paint
Location: The Fridge I told ye!!
Mine is at 110hp which is just where I was aiming for it, haven't had any problems and have changed oil only once since the last build that got it to 110, not used as much now!
At the time when I was looking into it, once you go over the 110/120hp mark with the A or + series with a 5 port your almost into rebuilds after around 80 to 100 hours service maybe even less, this is simply because most of that power is made higher up the rev range and the higher you rev the quicker you wear.

Have a word with Paul Hickey (Merlin on here) of HRE, Hickey race engineering, he really knows his stuff and would probably be able to answer any if not all of your questions

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Thanks macker

I'm intending on getting that power before 7000.
But as said before dyno will proof or disproof those bold claims.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:12 pm
Posts: 587
Id put up fotos if it was of a standard Id be happy with people seeing!, I had to throw it all in together in the space of a week after rebuilding the engine in my driveway in the late winter/spring. Threw it together just to get a few graphs and figures to put into my theses as it was too far behing schedule, still did grand, who knew you could get away with f**k all results lol :mrgreen: .

When the shell gets welded up Ill re-install it properly, for example my air temp sensor is mounted on a cable tie over the inlet :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Ah not to worry did the same to get my setup up and running initially.
Don't give up its great fun


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:12 pm
Posts: 587
Oh I wont give up, it just needs bits to be done in other areas first, it also has snapped two engine steadies :cry: ILL have it on the road for summer, plus I get to save on the tax :)


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Right trying something new with a 3 d printer that was used for trials at work.

Designed a trumpet with airflow in mind and altered the dimensions in such a way that I get more clearance so I can fit an air box under the round nose bonnet.

First print failed but part was still usefull to figure out some dimension.
Image

Altered the drawing and the printer is off again,


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Image

Unfortunately the damn thing is so awl am gonna have to wait till the morning to see the outcome.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:42 am
Posts: 248
Whats your location?: Dublin,
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: 1275 MkIII
Modifications: Few bits
Location: Dublin,
Lucky you w/access to a 3D printer, love to have a shot on one! Least you have the opportunity to go back & refine the piece too.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
thats the design off it
Image

have the first one printed but not happy with the outcome yet.

as you said CB_Phill re-design and go again.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
That's the first one that came out ok.
But still needs a bit of work.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Image


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:55 pm
Posts: 2632
Whats your location?: Drogheda
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: Traveller
Turbo
Hornet
Equinox
MINI Clubman
Location: LOUTH
Still loving the engineering :D
I look foward to the rolling road figures to, love to see what people can get out of the A series rather than a transplant.
Turbo all the way for me though.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Actually does anyone have a Cfd package on here and is willing to run a few of my designs through it.


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