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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Went and had a go at fitting new injectors and readjust idle and throttle balance. I used to use the one on the right.
And now I got the one on the left for balancing.
Image

What a difference the yoke on the left is way easier to use and gives a much more stable reading. What showed as equal on the cheap one was still out by 2 on the one on the right.
Now it's running nice and even with 14.5 afr at idle and no stumbling or chasing.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 4657
Whats your location?: Longford
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: 1971 Mini Marcos.
1984 Mini Sprite
PROJECT X
Modifications: 1380cc
Weber45
S/C CR gearbox and drop gears
Location: Longford
Image

I have one of these bad boys for balancing motor bike carbs for the Micra conversion that should be hitting the road in the next decade.

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A fully carbon fiber Mini Marcos shell weighs just 7.25kg.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:30 am
Posts: 1948
Whats your location?: THE FRIDGE
Region: Aboard
What Minis have you?: 110bhp 1968 mkII
Modifications: NEW Custom flakey paint
Location: The Fridge I told ye!!
I wouldn't trust them too much TMG, the one on the left is off already! lol

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 4657
Whats your location?: Longford
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: 1971 Mini Marcos.
1984 Mini Sprite
PROJECT X
Modifications: 1380cc
Weber45
S/C CR gearbox and drop gears
Location: Longford
Thats to allow for the denser air on that side of the engine :wink:

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A fully carbon fiber Mini Marcos shell weighs just 7.25kg.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Lol. I would never go back to that tubed ***** again. Anyways am wondering now will I tune the ecu using map or TPS as this time I seem to get a good enough vacuum to do so. And that on throttle bodies. Might get some time on the road if the wind dies down.


Last edited by macker on Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Language


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Right an update have my engine road roughly road tuned with afrs of 14/1 for idle / cruise and 13.5/1 for mid acceleration and 12.9/1 on full throttle.

the increased fuelling that is now gone in on full throttle indicates plenty of more power.
Here is my mad attempt to calculate it out and graph it all. [Edit} yes mad alright but all incorrect

Looks like their bold claims were right about making more torque and power at lower rpm's then other heads no names mentioned. [Edit] will wait and see for dyne runs before we can say yes to that one.
If i got myself the RE13PP cam with a more LCA i might get to the 145 hp mark at 7000 rpm. Bummer why did i buy the RE13OT cam again?? i don't know. [Edit] definitely worth a try.

Anyways still some ignition timing to sort out and then to the rolling road to confirm results.


Last edited by coolmini on Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
oh and sorry about the bad language macker/ i see you edited it. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:42 am
Posts: 248
Whats your location?: Dublin,
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: 1275 MkIII
Modifications: Few bits
Location: Dublin,
:shock: Thats one nice looking torque 'curve' & I was wondering if a 7port was worth the extra funds. Question answered!!!


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:55 pm
Posts: 2612
Whats your location?: Drogheda
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: Traveller
Turbo
Hornet
Equinox
MINI Clubman
Location: LOUTH
Impressive figures. Must be a real smooth drive with that torque curve.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Right looks like i did a stupid mistake.
i used one of those online injector flow rate calculators to figure out the size of injector flow rate. e.g. 160 hp 80% duty =>263 cc/min.
What they don't take into account is:
1. most ecu's inject fuel once per 720 degrees (4 stoke engine 2 rotations for a complete cycle) this
is done for emissions to inject fuel only when valve is open.
2. the canems ecu injects fuel once per 360 degrees so thats 2 squirts per 4 stroke cycle (720 degrees).
That would mean that i can get away with a much smaller injector flow rate i.e. half the size so 130 cc/min would have done fine.
so that duty cycle % is a bit of a lie. it depends on the ecu how many squirts it does per cycle. the percent of duty cycle is per 360 degree alright but as above some inject the same amount again in the next rotation, others don't and this is not accounted for in the % duty cycle of those online calculators.
hope this may help someone else sometime.

ah well i live and learn and stand corrected.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:55 pm
Posts: 2612
Whats your location?: Drogheda
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: Traveller
Turbo
Hornet
Equinox
MINI Clubman
Location: LOUTH
Don't quite follow.
Your using the Canems ECU which has 4 outputs for injectors but its firing every 360deg.
2 outputs firing every 360 would suit 5 port head
4 outputs firing every 360 would suit a 4 coil waste spark ignition system .
Not famillier with the Canems ECU, can you put up a link.

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Hi woody the Canems ecu firmware is meant for the 5 port. So the firing injectors every 360 is meant to be. Actually I think it's a good idea doing that even on a standard engine as it gives the fuel time to atomise when it's sitting in the port when the engine is warm. However it doesn't help emissions as one can have fluctuations in the fuelling which might cause higher hc output.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Right sorry guys had to take down the sheet that i put up the last day as its totally wrong and would give wrong impressions to people.
i will post proper figures when dyne run is completed.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
coolmini wrote:
Right looks like i did a stupid mistake.
i used one of those online injector flow rate calculators to figure out the size of injector flow rate. e.g. 160 hp 80% duty =>263 cc/min.
What they don't take into account is:
1. most ecu's inject fuel once per 720 degrees (4 stoke engine 2 rotations for a complete cycle) this
is done for emissions to inject fuel only when valve is open.
2. the canems ecu injects fuel once per 360 degrees so thats 2 squirts per 4 stroke cycle (720 degrees).
That would mean that i can get away with a much smaller injector flow rate i.e. half the size so 130 cc/min would have done fine.
so that duty cycle % is a bit of a lie. it depends on the ecu how many squirts it does per cycle. the percent of duty cycle is per 360 degree alright but as above some inject the same amount again in the next rotation, others don't and this is not accounted for in the % duty cycle of those online calculators.
hope this may help someone else sometime.

ah well i live and learn and stand corrected.

All wrong.. man did i get confused today. maybe i should get over the dose of the flue first before i go near any of this stuff.
the duty cycle of injectors is correct i.e. % is per cycle.
its just the injection pulse that is halved when using batch injection. thats all.

ohh dear sorry guys.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:55 pm
Posts: 2612
Whats your location?: Drogheda
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: Traveller
Turbo
Hornet
Equinox
MINI Clubman
Location: LOUTH
You've lost me :?
Is a cycle 360deg or 720deg?

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
One cycle is 720 degrees.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 261
Location: Drogheda
kona wrote:
coolmini wrote:
By the way if anyone else requires new magneti mareli / weber injectors
I can get them from Germany for euro 40 a piece plus vat and delivery.
Got 5 of iwp098 280cc pico injectors for 180 including vat / delivery.
Most places want a 100 a piece.
And they are original items. Rip off ireland and uk or what.


Out of curiousity what size injectors did you size for when it was on the 5port? I used delphi 525cc fuel injectors.

280cc seems a bit high for a 7 port?


Hi Kona, Interested that someone has tried the Delphi 525cc injectors as they are on my radar to try in my Std ecu mpi, those or some 492cc Racetronix items. Reasoning being that the disc type is meant to have better reaction and efficiency than pintle and I haven't found any other evidence of anyone else trying this simple mod. Can you elaborate any on your findings with these injectors? Idle etc.
Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Dylan8660 wrote:
kona wrote:
coolmini wrote:
By the way if anyone else requires new magneti mareli / weber injectors
I can get them from Germany for euro 40 a piece plus vat and delivery.
Got 5 of iwp098 280cc pico injectors for 180 including vat / delivery.
Most places want a 100 a piece.
And they are original items. Rip off ireland and uk or what.


Out of curiousity what size injectors did you size for when it was on the 5port? I used delphi 525cc fuel injectors.

280cc seems a bit high for a 7 port?


Hi Kona, Interested that someone has tried the Delphi 525cc injectors as they are on my radar to try in my Std ecu mpi, those or some 492cc Racetronix items. Reasoning being that the disc type is meant to have better reaction and efficiency than pintle and I haven't found any other evidence of anyone else trying this simple mod. Can you elaborate any on your findings with these injectors? Idle etc.
Cheers


Actually the best injectors would be the asnu range as they have a better spray pattern.
i tired them too but the ones i had were too small for my application, but tuning with them was way easier for some reason. i presume the faction time is more consistent with them.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:12 pm
Posts: 587
Dylan8660 wrote:

Hi Kona, Interested that someone has tried the Delphi 525cc injectors as they are on my radar to try in my Std ecu mpi, those or some 492cc Racetronix items. Reasoning being that the disc type is meant to have better reaction and efficiency than pintle and I haven't found any other evidence of anyone else trying this simple mod. Can you elaborate any on your findings with these injectors? Idle etc.
Cheers


I cant really tell you much as I dont have much results from them. I have all the calculations at how I sized them for the car but nothing on how they perform due to it basically being rushed last minute then other factors.

Your welcome to the calculations. Would you consider ditching the SPI system and installing a twin port system? PM me if you want the gen.


Coolmini the car is coming along very nicely, im looking forward to the next update..


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Am currently working on putting the injectors on the manifold that way they won't be as tall and I can install the filter further back and hopefully use a standard looking bonnet. Am also taking the engine out for cam adjustments as I dialled it in too early since the power drops off too early. Have no pics at the moment.
Bit of busy weeks with work and birthday parties of children etc


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Right after learning how to weld aluminium. I had a bit if a marathon at welding the manifold building up material end then get injector pockets machined into it.
Image

And all that just to get a finish inside the port without gaps

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:42 am
Posts: 248
Whats your location?: Dublin,
Region: Eastern
What Minis have you?: 1275 MkIII
Modifications: Few bits
Location: Dublin,
some nice work


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
thanks,
have to find time now to take engine out adjust cam timing and do some more porting on manifold face


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
Update have engine out and head off.
After welding the manifold the ports didn't match up anymore to the head.
So I did some grinding
Image
And matching the throttle bodies along with it
Image

Image



Then while I was at it I put injectors on and fuel rail to the manifold to line up some brackets to hold it all.
Image

Just weld it on now and some mayor tidy up after all the grinding before engine strip. Want to get crank balanced as I felt some vibration @ 7000 rpm the last time I had it running.
Getting there eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: 92 mini aka bibsi
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 241
Whats your location?: Claremorris
Mayo
Region: Western
What Minis have you?: none right now
Modifications: sold that one, looking for a new project
Location: Mayo
right i discovered sand onto of pistons and some grit in the oil...
Not good this at all.
Westward can't balance cranks for 2 months looks like i'll be waiting for a while now.


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